Comments on: Language - kusai

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 29 May 2007 05:06:13 +0000

That’s a fascinating site. Thanks for sharing the link!

By: ibitoshi

ibitoshi — Mon, 28 May 2007 22:49:52 +0000

This post has a pretty good research into the origin of “胡散”.

http://gogen-allguide.com/u/usankusai.html

After going through several possible explanations, including a kind of tea cup, the site believe it was a Japanese-made kanji compound, since the “u” is a Tang Dynasty sound while the “san” is a Han Dynasty pronunciation. That kinda make sense to me.

However, although the article found it dubious, I thought that the Chinese medical term made sense. “San” is a term for a powdery oral medicine. A very popular throat medication in Japan is still called “Ryukakusan” (San made from dragon horn), since it was based on a Chinese formula. Combine “胡”’s most popular definition which is “foreign”, the term 胡散 literally means “foreign medicine”, which of course in terms of a sino-centric world is by default suspicious.

胡 in fact is the last name of many, many Chinese of Central-Asian or Turkish decent. When they decide to stay in China they usually have to pick a Chinese last name. Many of them choose “胡” to denote their foreign origin. If you know a Chinese friend with that last name, chances are his ancestors were not Han Chinese.

By: Heather Meadows

Heather Meadows — Mon, 21 May 2007 03:06:38 +0000

I like the smelly drug abusers story!

By: Michael

Michael — Sun, 20 May 2007 20:09:15 +0000

Um… えびす is one of the 名乗り readings for 胡, used only in names. If えびす can mean skin hanging from an animal’s neck, that’s very interesting, but I don’t think it has anything to do with 胡. Heather is right about 胡 having a connotation of “foreign” (eg. 胡座をかく, to sit cross-legged or “Indian style”), but even the Japanese aren’t sure how “scatter” fits in.
…
One site speculating on the etymology tells the very colorful story of how, in 16th century Persia, there was a substance scattered on food like a spice which caused a drug-like effect similar to drinking alcohol. It was nice in small doses, but some people (of course) abused it, and this turned into a huge social issue. Thus, if someone smelled strongly of this substance, they were considered a suspicious person. The Japanese apparently agreed that smelly drug abusers were no good, so they coined this word just for them. Two other theories, given considerably less attention but sounding more likely, are that it had something to do with doubts about the Portuguese whom Japan was trading with, or that it belongs to the history of the Warring States Period.
…
In other words, no one has the slightest clue how it came about. ^_^

By: Heather Meadows

Heather Meadows — Fri, 18 May 2007 23:50:31 +0000

Rikaichan is saying “barbarian, foreign” for 胡 and “scatter, disperse, squander” for 散.

So maybe its origins are from when foreigners started spreading across Japan? :>